With Thanksgiving approaching, I hope you're finding time to relax and read (and hopefully improve your content diet).
I recently revisited the fascinating people I've interviewed for The Profile over the years. You may have missed some of these conversations, so I wanted to share them with you this holiday season. (If you prefer to listen, you can check out The Profile’s podcast page here.)
These interviews contain insights and ideas that I believe you'll find valuable.
I've organized them by each person's key lessons, along with my reflections on how their wisdom has shaped my own life:
1. Robert Hoge on how to design a beautiful life
Out of all the interviews in my entire career, this one has probably been the most impactful.
Robert Hoge was born with a large tumor in the middle of his face that pushed his eyes to the sides of his head and two severely mangled legs. His mom refused to take her baby home because she was worried about how his difficult upbringing would affect her other children.
When she and her husband returned home without their newborn child, his mom kept second-guessing her decision. So she decided to give her kids a say. During a family meeting around the dinner table, she asked them to take a vote on whether they wanted Hoge to join the family. His siblings all voted that they wanted his parents to bring him home.
In the beginning of our interview, Hoge pulled out the journal that his mom kept in the first days of his life. In it, she wrote, “I wished he would go away or die or something. I just wanted to be finished with it all.”
After he read me a few passages from it, I asked, “What did you make of these words as you were growing up, and what do you make of them today?”
What he told me is something that has almost become a mantra for me: “Not everything has to be okay, all at once.”
“It was a bit difficult to grapple with when I was growing up, but not overly difficult. The way I like to explain it was that I knew the story had a happy ending.
“Now, more so than ever, I think a lot of people expect things to be perfectly formed, perfectly mature, and wonderful on arrival. But they're not. You don't go from the first scene of a movie or a book to the last scene of a movie or a book. That journey in the middle is really important.
“But certainly, my mom didn't want to see me when I was born. So for the first week or so of my life, the doctors and nurses would say to my mother, “Come on, Mary, let's go see your son.” Because other than my deformities, I was perfectly healthy. I was just in the nursery, but my mom kept refusing day after day. She just kept saying no.
“Then a week after I was born, she finally changed her mind, came up, and saw me. And as a coping mechanism, she decided then and there that she didn't want me. She just said, “No, I don't want anything to do with this baby. I just wish he'd go away. Wish I didn't have to deal with the problem.”
“And I do reflect on that a lot. Because when you can actually understand, you can see it as quite a reasonable and normal reaction to that kind of shock. And I don't find it particularly distressing as an adult.
“I do know that it might have taken my parents a month, but they took me home. And they were incredibly loving, wonderful, and caring parents, who equipped me with an awful lot of really important and useful strategies to get through life.
“But I think there's an underlying lesson, and this is something that served me really well throughout my life.
“Not everything has to be okay, all at once.
“If you can accept that and work through some of the challenges, and perhaps understand that getting to clarity and getting to an outcome you want often involves a whole lot of messiness along the way, then that's actually a really valuable thing.”
Check out the full interview here:
Enjoying this? For more like this, make sure to sign up for The Profile here:
2. James Clear on how to generate better ideas
When I interviewed Atomic Habits author James Clear, I wanted to know the following: How did Clear build his brand? Why did he write a book? What mental frameworks does he use to generate ideas? And of course, what lessons could he share about how we can be more intentional about our day-to-day behavior?
One of the insights that’s stayed with me long after our interview centers around idea-generation. He said it’s about optimizing your digital and physical environment:
“The most effective things I've found are to try to automate the streams of information that are coming into you. So Twitter is a good example. I have spent an unreasonable amount of time figuring out who to follow on Twitter. I have easily spent over 100 hours on it.
“What ends up happening is that when you choose who to follow on Twitter or Instagram, you're choosing your future thoughts. You're choosing what that information stream is, so you're already locking yourself into certain types of thoughts. Now, you don't know exactly what those people will share, but you have an idea of what their themes are and how they view the world. If you can do a good job of selecting the right people to follow, you essentially automate good thoughts coming into your mind every time you're scrolling through.
“I can't go on Twitter now, and not come out with three, four, or five ideas. I'm constantly dumping things into my big pile of ideas to work upon. I would say social media plays a much bigger role for my information consumption than it used to, but it only works because it's heavily curated.
“[And then, there's] books. I have 17 books on my desk right now. I'm not reading 17 books, but they're there. For my physical environment, I try to sprinkle good sources of information all around. I have books sitting next to me, I have some next to my bed, and I have some on the coffee table in the living room.
“I'm never far from a good idea. Most of them aren't mine, but they're always there for me to build upon and soak up and think about and iterate on. That's how I think about optimizing my environment for having good ideas.”
Check out the full interview here:
3. Amelia Boone on how to master the art of suffering
Dubbed “The Queen of Pain,” Amelia Boone is a corporate attorney at Apple by day and an obstacle endurance racer by night. She signed up for her first Tough Mudder race at age 28 when she realized she couldn’t do a single pull-up.
Since that day, she became obsessed with getting stronger and went on to become a 4-time world champion and one of the most decorated obstacle racers in history — all while working full-time at Apple.
What fascinated me about Boone’s story is just how good she is at getting through pain. "When you put yourself through situations that are very hard, and you do that on purpose, it helps you to deal with the messiness in life that is not voluntary," she says.
The lesson I learned from Boone is this: The bad things in your life are just like the good — they are temporary. And that’s freeing.
Here’s what she said about the power of voluntary suffering:
“The one thing suffering has taught me is that everything is fleeting.
“Pain is fleeting, feelings are fleeting, how you feel in this moment is going to change. So when I've been through heartbreak, when I've been through breakups, when I've been through job changes, I tell myself, 'I'm really in it right now. I'm really in it. I'm having a really bad time. Life sucks.'
“But then I tell myself, 'Focus on what's in front of you, and things will slowly start to change. It may not be immediate. It may be longer than you want it to be.’ But I remember that through racing where it's just you'll go through ups and downs, and you can't always predict those.”
Check out the full interview here:
4. Laura Dekker on how to parent children with big dreams
Laura Dekker holds the world record for being the youngest person to sail solo around the world. She began her journey in August 2010 when she was 14 years old and finished in January 2012 when she was 16.
At age 16, she became the youngest sailor ever to single-handedly circumnavigate the globe.
“For me, [that trip] was really the beginning of my life,” she told me. “And honestly, everything I have now has everything to do with that trip. It changed my life very significantly.”
One of the most interesting parts of our conversation centered around the role of parenting children with big dreams.
I asked her whether she would let her own kids undertake a similar endeavor. She said, “This is such a tough question. I would honestly sh*t my pants. I really hope they won't.”
That was surprising for me to hear given how much freedom her parents gave her. Here’s what she said:
“It's so hard. In saying that, I know the gift that my parents have given me in allowing me not just to sail around the world but also in allowing me to chase my dreams always.
“If I said, ‘I'm gonna go do this,’ my parents didn't go, ‘Oh, that's dumb idea.’ They were like, ‘Okay, cool. What do you think are the consequences of doing it?’
“If my kid would come and say, ‘I want to be an astronaut,’ instead of saying, ‘Well, maybe that’s a bit far-fetched,’ I really would have to know that I need to say, ‘Okay, that's great. What are the steps to achieve that? And can we do that together?’
“They might never become that astronaut, they might never go and do something as crazy as I have done, but I really, really want to encourage them to be themselves and to actually do what they love to do.
“And that starts with this age. My oldest is five, and he has dreams, he has goals, and he has things he wants to be, and I just need to be there to encourage that. To be there for him.”
Check out the full interview here:
5. Mark Bertolini on how to lead with compassion
In his early career, former Bridgewater co-CEO and Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini was unapologetically competitive, aggressive, and at times, ruthless. He was so well known for his bare-knuckled, iron-fist leadership that his employees had given him the moniker, "Darth Vader.”
By all measures, he had made it. He was making tons of money, living in a mansion, and earning respect in his field. But it came at a cost. He was spending more and more time away from his family, and inadvertently creating a work culture that didn't necessarily reflect his values.
Then came his first wake-up call.
In 2001, his son Eric was diagnosed with a rare and deadly form of lymphoma. Bertolini left his job as an executive at insurer Cigna to care for his son and donated one of his kidneys to him in 2007. Today, his son is the only known survivor of the disease.
Bertolini joined Aetna in 2003, and one year later, experienced his second life-altering moment.
Skiing in Vermont, he looked over his shoulder for a second when he hit a tree and dove headfirst into a river. He spent two hours in the icy water, having broken his spine in five places and ending up in coma.
The injury resulted in his left arm being permanently disabled with throbbing, shooting pain.
"During the recovery, I’m on seven different narcotics all at once," he says. "Fentanyl patches, Vicodin, OxyContin, Neurontin, Keppra. And liberal use of alcohol when I didn’t have to go anywhere. It was a mess."
He said the two personal experiences made him realize the U.S. healthcare system isn't equipped to help patients recover properly after facing a major health issue. He began to define "health" broadly — a healthy individual is a productive individual, which in turn, is a happy individual.
To better manage his pain without the help of painkillers, Bertolini turned to yoga and mindfulness. He began reading the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita, studying Sanskrit, attending yoga retreats, and learning chants.
As the CEO of Aetna, Bertolini began making leadership changes from within. While the company was thriving, its employees were not, many of them using Medicaid and food stamps. He revamped employee benefits that included a minimum wage increase to $16 an hour and implemented yoga and meditation classes.
Bertolini learned his most important leadership lesson after he began studying Eastern religions. He was inspired by a passage from the foundational Taoist text, the Tao Te Ching, attributed to philosopher Lao Tzu. Bertolini thought about how he could apply it to business leadership.
He came up with ‘The Four Levels of Taoist Leadership.’
Here’s how he described it:
“The first level is your employees hate you.
“The second level is your employees fear you.
“The third level is your employees praise you.
“The fourth level, you’re invisible because your organization takes care of itself.”
Check out the full interview here:
6. Heather Wilson on how to make difficult decisions in moments of crisis
On Nov. 5, 2017, a gunman entered a Texas church and opened fire, killing 26 people in the largest mass shooting in the state’s history.
Heather A. Wilson, who was the Secretary of the Air Force at the time, witnessed the tragic unfolding of events, and then got a call from the Inspector General. He told her that he thought the shooter was a former airman who had been discharged.
“We found out that not only had he been an airman who had been discharged, but that under the law, the Air Force should have notified law enforcement and put him on a list that prohibited him from purchasing a weapon — and we failed to do that,” she told me.
As the Secretary of the Air Force, Wilson had to make a decision on how to handle this. One of the lawyers around the table suggested that she mitigate risk by issuing a statement with general language that told the public the Air Force is looking into it.
Wilson didn’t like that suggestion.
“We know what the truth is,” she said. “We’re much better off owning up to what we know and fixing it than trying to suggest that we’re further evaluating and investigating it. We were much better off just owning up to it and fixing the problem.”
Someone else chimed in with another suggestion: “Blame it on your predecessor.”
But Wilson was resolute. She would take responsibility and go on to work with the FBI to fix the underlying record system to prevent mistakes such as this one from happening again.
She then told me something that has served me well when I’ve been in situations in which the advice didn’t feel right.
Wilson said:
“You always have to know the difference between the advice and the command decision. They are there to provide advice, not to decide.”
“There is no substitute for the decision-making by the people responsible for the outcome. It may have been the harder decision in the short-term because you are going to get grilled, you are going to get skewered the next day. But in the long-term, it was the right decision.”
Check out the full interview here:
7. JJ Watt on how to fight complacency
On Dec. 27, 2022, JJ Watt, one of the one of the NFL's most well-respected defensive stars, sent the tweet that would mark the end of one chapter and signal the beginning of another. At age 33, Watt announced he would retire from the NFL after 12 seasons.
Even though football has been the dominant focus for the majority of Watt’s life, he has made a name for himself outside of the game. He earned national attention for his philanthropic efforts when he raised more than $41 million to help Houston recover from Hurricane Harvey. He dabbled in entertainment after hosting Saturday Night Live in 2020. And most importantly, he became a dad — one of the most monumental events of his life so far.
One thing that is perhaps most impressive about Watt is that he never let complacency erode his career. During our interview, I asked him how. How do you fight complacency when you’ve had a taste of success?
He told me something interesting: You see complacency rear its head at many different points. The more interesting part, he says, is not when it happens but when players realize it’s happening.
Here’s what he said:
“Some guys realize it early enough and catch it to where then they change themselves to become a better player or a better competitor. But then there are guys who come back later and say, ‘Man, I wish I would have just been more disciplined.’
“One thing I talk to a lot of rookies that come into the league about is, ‘Don't get caught up in the lifestyle because the lifestyle would be so much better if you play good.’ People come in, and they're so excited about everything that comes along with being an NFL player, but they forget the reason they're getting all this is because they're an NFL player and because they’re playing good.
“Some guys don't realize it until it’s too late, and then they come back and they have those regrets. I think that you have to realize that the work is what created all this, and the harder you work, the more of the fun stuff you'll get.”
Check out the full interview here:
8. Brandon Stanton on how to find your focus
Brandon Stanton is part street photographer, part storyteller. He's spent the last 10 years of his life capturing the fascinating stories of ordinary people. He catches his subjects in various moments of time — from their most vulnerable to their most philosophical.
His popular blog, Humans of New York (HONY), features portraits of strangers who share intimate stories of strength, addiction, redemption, regret, and love.
It all began in 2010. Recently fired from his finance job, Stanton picked up a camera and hit the streets. His initial goal was to photograph 10,000 New Yorkers and plot the pictures on a map of the five boroughs.
He eventually began to interview his subjects and include a quote alongside their portraits. Stanton's photography project eventually evolved into a loyal following of more than 25 million followers on social media.
When I interviewed Stanton, I asked him about the power of discipline and consistency. He had picked up his camera day after day, year after year for over a decade.
Here’s what he said:
When I flunked out of school, I read Ben Franklin's autobiography. I saw how he lived his life and how structured and disciplined he was, and I started incorporating habits into my life. The first habit I formed was that I started reading 100 pages a day every day. I did that for years — even when I went back to school. I went back to the University of Georgia and ended up making straight As. Even during that time, I would read 100 pages every day on top of reading for school.
I started exercising and playing piano for an hour. And I did those things every single day for years, and then I got proficient at piano, I was in good shape, and I educated myself pretty intensely. But I think the most important thing that was happening during that time was that I was learning discipline. Not only did my habits improve me in many ways, but I also got very good at the skill of creating habits in my life.
So when Humans of New York came along, I knew taking a day off wasn't about the day of work that you lost, it was about breaking that habit. So no matter how I felt, no matter how insecure I was, no matter how lonely I was, no matter how sick I was, I went out and photographed every single day. For years and years and years, I posted four photos a day, every single day. And this is when Humans of New York was dovetailing with the rise of Facebook.
Check out the full interview here:
9. Danny Meyer on how to take risks without the fear of failure
Union Square Cafe. Gramercy Tavern. Shake Shack.
Danny Meyer doesn't open restaurants. He opens institutions.
As one of New York City’s most legendary restaurateurs, Meyer says his role is to challenge his team to think long-term even during the short-term turbulence of the chaotic event they have to face.
One of the most remarkable things about Meyer is that he’s mastered the art of consistent innovation. He often tells his team: “Make new mistakes every day. Don’t waste time repeating the old ones.”
In an industry that requires a certain level of consistency and perfectionism, how does Meyer encourage his team to experiment and take risks often without the fear of failure?
Here’s what he said:
“As long as your mistake doesn't lack integrity, make it. As long as there's good intent, then you probably took a risk for the purpose of making someone else feel better, and if it didn't work, it's OK.
“If you have a culture of fear where people are afraid of getting in trouble because they made an honest mistake, you're going to have a much lower rate of innovation. You're going to have a much lower rate of going outside of your comfort zone to do extraordinary things for people. I think hospitality in any business is truly about customizing experiences for people and that means if everything you do is off-the-rack, then you'll be fine, but “fine” no longer wins the race. Bold and remarkable wins the race.
“The only thing I think gets you into the exceptional and remarkable stage is when you do exceptional and remarkable things for people beyond what they expected. And that is going to involve mistake-making.
“Generally, you can end up in a better place with the person you made the mistake on if you practice what we call the "5 As of Mistake-Making." The first is to be aware you made the mistake. Second, acknowledge it, Third, apologize for it. Fourth, act on it and fix it. And fifth, apply additional generosity.
“Now, it's time for us to write a great next chapter. If I made a mistake, you're probably going to tell someone about it. I can't erase it. Our job is to write a great next chapter, so that when you do tell that story, you say, "But do you want to know how they handled it?"
“Where the rest of the world is either not aware they made a mistake or denying it or blaming it on someone else, we're embracing it, overcoming it, and using it to get you to feel even better about us.”
Check out the full interview here:
10. Lynsey Addario on how to see the beauty in the face of tragedy
Over the past 15 years, war photographer Lynsey Addario has covered every major conflict and humanitarian crisis on the planet. As she sees the destruction and the pain through the lens of her camera, her images translate that intense emotion to people across the globe.
Addario had a number of close calls on the job — she has been kidnapped in Libya, abducted in Iraq, and injured in a car accident in Pakistan. But the one consistent thread throughout Addario’s career is that she never puts the camera down — even in the face of extreme danger.
If there’s one lesson she’s learned about the human experience it’s that no matter what is going on in the world, life goes on. Even in the midst of war, Addario shows scenes of people celebrating birthdays, weddings, and graduations.
“It’s human nature to try to have fun, to laugh, to have some normalcy despite the disruptiveness and the devastation that war brings,” she says. “People try to find some semblance of routine, peace, and happiness. I see those moments over and over in war, and it’s always surprising to me, but it always gives me this reassurance. At the end of the day, we are all so similar.”
In her memoir, she wrote: “I choose to live in peace and witness war—to experience the worst in people but to remember the beauty.” I asked her: How do you find beauty in the middle of a war zone?
She said:
“Oh I mean, there are so many moments of beauty.
“I mean, people are incredible. In the darkest moments, I witness resilience, I witness generosity, I witness people being kind to one another and helping each other.
“I do witness horrific things and the brutality that humans can bring out in one another. But I, personally, am an optimist, and I am always very positive. And so I don't dwell on that. I dwell more on the incredible things that I witness in people.”
Check out the full interview here:
11. Rob Henderson on how to measure fulfillment
“My name is Robert Kim Henderson. Each of my three names was taken from a different adult … These three adults have something in common: All abandoned me.”
This is the powerful opening to Henderson’s new memoir, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class.
Needless to say, Henderson’s early life was turbulent.
“Robert” was the name of his biological father, who abandoned him and his mom when Henderson was just a baby. “Kim” was his birth mother’s family name. She succumbed to drug addiction soon after Henderson was born, and he hasn’t seen her since he was a toddler. “Henderson” is the last name of his adoptive father, who severed ties with him after he divorced his adoptive mother.
Divorce, tragedy, poverty, and violence dominated Henderson’s adolescence, but you would never know this from looking at his resume. He joined the Air Force at 17, went to Yale for undergrad, and earned a PhD at Cambridge.
During our interview, I asked Henderson how he defines success. Truthfully, I expected him to respond with something about starting at the very bottom and reaching the very top.
To my surprise he answered with this:
“As far as professional accomplishments, I guess I've pretty much done more than I would have expected, actually. So I've exceeded on that measure, but you know, I never had a dad. And that's something that I would like to be one day.”
How incredible is that?
More often than not, the things we take for granted are the very thinks we should thank our lucky stars for.
Check out the full interview here:
12. Joe Preston on how to make time for recovery
Joe Preston, a New Balance lifer who was named CEO in December 2018, has been hyper-focused on cutting-edge innovation and making the brand relevant to a younger demographic. He’s expanded the brand into new sports, invested in the growth of its online business, and opened an innovative multi-sport research lab called “The Track” in Boston.
And his bets are paying off. New Balance ended 2023 with annual sales of $6.5 billion, and Preston has set an audacious goal of becoming a $10 billion business within a few years.
But in order to stay creative, he’s had to devote lots of time to work on creative projects and generate new ideas. Here’s what he said about the power of recovery:
“For deep thinking, I'm probably better off not sitting behind this desk. I find it far better when you when you get away.
“I'm a big believer in recovery.
“I think there's a point of diminishing returns if you continue to just grind it, grind it, grind it. And at some point, you got to make sure that you are being purposeful about your recovery.
“And to me, those are three simple elements — purposeful about your sleep, purposeful about your nutrition, and purposeful about your exercise.
“I am purposeful about those things, and [I am also] true to my purpose on why I am actually doing all this and why I want to do it. For me, it’s about trying to help people be their personal best here and to make sure that I am healthy for my family.
“That's why I want to make sure I have that recovery. It also helps me to be more more present, more engaged, more patient. And when I have those things, I’m more creative, and I can connect the dots easier.”
Check out the full interview here:
13. Francis Ngannou on why you should bet on yourself today
As a child growing up in Cameroon, former MMA champion Francis Ngannou endured a level of poverty few people can even imagine. After his parents divorced, he moved to his grandmother’s one-room brick house with his mom and four siblings.
At age 9, Ngannou got a job digging sand mines for $1.90 per day. The work kept his body busy, but he kept his mind even busier by daydreaming of making it to America and becoming a world-famous boxer. This may sound like childhood fantasy, but Ngannou felt the reality of it in his bones.
He was so obsessed with this dream of moving to the United States that he gave himself a nickname — “American Boy.”
When he was 22, Ngannou was ready to execute on the plan that had percolated in his head for over a decade. “I left the village to go to the city and find a gym,” he says. “I wanted to be a world champion.”
Even though he was a dreamer, Ngannou says he was realistic about the fact that he couldn’t become a world champion by training in Cameroon. So at age 25, he sold all of his belongings and set off for Morocco, the first leg of a winding and treacherous journey to America.
Ngannou traveled a whopping 3,000 miles across the Sahara Desert — from Cameroon to Nigeria, from Nigeria to Niger, from Niger to Algeria, from Algeria to Morocco. “The biggest deal was to get from Morocco to Spain because Spain is in Europe,” he says. “That was the hardest part.”
It took him 14 months to make it from Morocco to Spain, an endeavor Ngannou describes as “a hell of a journey.” That’s because he attempted to float on a raft full of people to a Spanish island off the coast of Morocco where he could call the Red Cross and seek asylum. But authorities had pulled him out of the water six separate times, and either dropped him back in the middle of the Moroccan desert or temporarily locked him in a Moroccan jail.
He got through this chaotic journey with a laser-focused mindset, asking himself time and time again: “What do I have to lose?” Ngannou ardently believed that this temporary pain was necessary in order for him to change the trajectory of his life.
In 2013, 26-year-old Ngannou made it to Spain, and spent time at an immigration detention center, but he didn’t care — asylum was all but guaranteed. In his search for a boxing gym, he ended up in Paris where he slept in the stairwell of a covered parking lot. "The parking lot was so nice," he said. "I didn't even feel homeless.”
When he entered the gym, Ngannou caught the eye of coach Didier Carmont, who suggested Ngannou try mixed martial arts as a way to make a living before trying his hand at professional boxing.
The rest is history. In 2015, Ngannou signed with the UFC, moved to the United States, and became the world heavyweight champion in a sport he didn’t even know existed just several years prior.
When I interviewed him, one thing was clear: He is someone who deeply believes in himself and isn’t afraid to take risks.
He knows the power of betting on himself time and time again. When something goes wrong in my life, I think about his story and what he told me about starting over: “Sometimes, to jump farther, you have to step back.”
He told me:
“Regardless of what happens in my life, I'm fortunate enough to be here. So I can’t complain about anything.
“I think I just have the DNA of betting on myself. If you look at the story of my life, it’s [about] betting on myself. You know that quote that says, ‘Sometimes, to jump farther, you have to step back?’
“I know that you have to start over sometimes, which is very hard for people. Even very talented people — they don't have the audacity; they don't have that courage to start over. And I think that makes a big difference between people.
“People are afraid of starting over. They are afraid of losing something that they already have.
Check out the full interview here:
—
There are even more interviews you can check out here:
What a fantastic digest of some incredible people with incredible stories of resilience. I needed the inspiration!